This forum is for discussing anything to do with Redmire Pool.
#14756 by andyd
Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:27 am
Following on from the recent discussions about ghosties, and trying to surf the current wave of activity on the forum, I have a more pleasant question about stock. Last night with an hour to kill I watched the "Redmire Forever" film by Solar tackle on Youtube. Whilst I don't consider it to be a particularly good film, it did get me thinking. A few points are raised, about which the presenters speak with an air of some authority, but I wondering if they were right.

1 - there are very few mirrors left in Redmire, and the carp are now mostly commons. Is this true, are commons more common? My guess would be yes. Does anyone know what the common : mirror ratio of the original stocking was?
2 - they catch the legendary "no pelvics", allegedly one of the original stock. The video was credited as being from 2003, so I was wondering if this fish still alive? They said it was the last 'original' in the Pool. Is that correct?
3 - One lad on the video has a 37lb common. A big fish, full of spawn. It is the biggest fish I've heard of coming out of the Pool in relatively recent years, but I was wondering has it come out since the film, and is it still in there?

A lot of questions. Does anyone have the answers?
#14757 by JAFFA
Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:50 am
Common being the dominant strain, will always rise to the top if a water is allowed to do its own thing stock wise. As in no new blood introduced. Providing the Ghostie issue is sorted properly, then given time the Pool will become devoid of Mirrors eventually.

Im sure no pecs passed away, Someone with a better knowledge will tell us for sure and roughly what date.

Don't know im afraid.

Your right about the film though.....Def one of my least favorite films about the pool.

kind regards Jeff
#14758 by The Sweetcorn Kid
Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:58 am
I think I can answer a couple of your questions….

No Pelvics did indeed pass over, but left the legacy behind in the shape of its offspring, I think there might be 3 commons in the pool showing this characteristic, one of which I caught last week at 17lb 8oz, a moment that will live with me forever.

As for the mirrors, I wouldn’t worry too much, last week I caught them at just under 20lbs, 7lbs, 12oz and also 1 inch long. So mirrors, including some stunning linears and scaly ones, are rife in the pool in a variety of year classes as we speak. It seems that the gudgeon are concentrated around the shallower margins at present, so the heron fishing near Bramble Island at dusk will be getting his fill on them and not the small carplets.
#14759 by Gurn
Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:29 pm
I'm sure I read somewhere that the big common in this film had died. However, it also seems plausible that it may have dropped
it's heavy cargo of spawn and now happily resides in the pool as a mid-twenty.
As an interesting (to me anyway) aside, I believe I caught one of the mirrors that appeared in the film last year.
#14761 by loop erimder
Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:14 pm
Whilst on this thread, there was discussion on TFF about fish and how they get into ponds and lakes etc. Ponds that have never been stocked but have all maner of species in them. How nature finds a way. It was said that it is very possible that spawn sticks to birds feet and they fly off to another lake and the spawn falls off the feet and hey presto new fish in a pond. Why hasn't this happened at Redmire? Other than the obvious 3 and Popeye that Dick Walker caught has there ever been any other reports of any other fish in Redmire :?:
#14762 by Snape
Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:59 pm
Yes the original no pelvics (also caught on APFA) died. None of the original stock are left.
Les has been reintroducing mirrors, linears and leathers bred externally from Redmire fish to try to keep their numbers up. Les made this comment about to introduction of 31 fish a few years ago
"The 31 carp to be precise that had been put into Redmire were all either linear, fully scaled or scattered mirrors and 10 pure leathers all hand picked by me. These fish were bred from fish taken from Redmire (with the family's permission I might add!) and bred by Simon Scott at Sparsholt College in laboratory conditions and grown on in my pond for one year to a size of twelve inches. All the fish were photographed whilst nestling in the hands of Rob 'Bertie the Bailiff' Fox. This is a practice I have carried out over a considerable number of years to return the balance of mirrors to commons as when I took control of Redmire there were only 6 mirrors left in the pool!"
In terms of why carp revert to commons. I wrote this explanation about scale patterns some time ago
The original stocking was, I think, 50% commons.

Loop, I agree that it is odd that no other fish have found their way into the pool. I would have thought the inlet stream would be most likely but water fowl could do it too. It does happen as I know of a lake which the owner stocked about 30 years ago but never stocked perch. There is no a healthy perch population.
#14763 by JAFFA
Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:38 pm
Snape I have spoken often to both Simon and Viv and Viv has sent me over the years quite a few pictures of Leathers, where some are quite abundant in scales, although it is fair to say mostly odd scales. He has also send me quite a few pics of Nude(scaleless) Mirrors that most would take as a Leather.

Way back on your posting in 2008 I posted this.

"Most scaled Leathers are mistaken for Mirrors. Most Leathers do actually have scales!

Mirrors devoid of scales are mistaken for Leathers.

A total nude Leather is a very rare fish and could be classed as a fish of a lifetime :wink:

kind regards Jeff"

The write up you did is of course spot on with regards to the Common dominance within the Pool and given a situation where no more fish were introduced to the pool it would of course over a long period of time regress to 100%(bar throwbacks/freaks of nature) Commons.

kind regards Jeff
#14764 by Pink Moon
Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:59 pm
I think that I am right in stating that there were very few commons in the original stocking (s?).

I'm no scientist but commons invariably dominate after a few years spawning. My original belief was that commons were better insulated due to their scaling, and able to withstand a cruel winter better than mirrors.

This, of course, turned out to be incorrect. I have my own lake and stock ponds. Originally the fish stocked were mostly mirrors. After a superb year spawning I was inundated with commons. Probably five to every one mirror. Through netting, electro fishing etc I removed every common that I was able to. Since then I perhaps find only one common to every ten mirrors. Put simply.....mirrors breed mostly mirrors. Mirrors and commons breed mostly commons. Commons and commons breed commons. I have never seen this in print but this is Definitely the case.

Turning to they leathers.the nudes from the original stocking were, in my opinion, some of the greatest examples that we have see. Unparalleled.

The redmire stocking was exceptional. I am a great fan of the leney waters but redmire received a unique batch. Well, almost unique. All of the well known leney waters appear to have extremely different characteristics. You would never mistake a savay, frensham, redmire, nene leney etc etc for one another.

A much under explored aspect of the leney legacy in my opinion.

Ps, great to see the forum busy again.
#14766 by andyd
Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:17 pm
Thank you all for the replies - very interesting and informative. It' s good to know that there is an active endeavour to keep up the amount of mirrors in the pool (good work fishery management types!).

I'd still like to here something about that 37lb mirror though............
#14767 by Pink Moon
Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:09 pm
Hi Andy

From memory the fish was a common and was found dead shortly afterwards. The fish was grossly spawn bound.
#14769 by jeffire
Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:01 am
The fish was found dead dont think ive ever seen a more hideous looking fish ! . A truly awful dvd in my opinion.
#14770 by andyd
Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:41 am
Yes - it was definitely a common (I've no idea why I typed 'mirror'). Shame it was found dead, but it did look very spawn bound indeed. And I agree about the video, it somehow failed capture the whole Redmire "thing" in my view.

However, I guess this leads on to the next obvious question - what is the biggest known (as opposed to legend) fish in the pool now? What's the biggest to come out in the last 10 years? And before folk start I know that Redmire is much, much more than just weights and measures. I am fully paid up member of the "standing on the dam and staring with awe society", the atmosphere there is unique with or without 40lb+ carp, and for me just being there was enough. I am just interested given the leviathans that have resided there in the past.
#14812 by keith
Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:50 pm
My avatar is of me with a 32lb 8oz common I caught roughly 8 or so years ago. I think a few others have had fish of similar weights, but nothing considerably bigger, unless I'm mistaken.
#15218 by Matthew Tanner
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:33 pm
No pelvics has indeed left it's offspring. Myself and Stu Harris both caught baby no pelvics whilst at Redmire last summer. Stu I believe took a photograph of his. These were only around 4 inches long.

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